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Post by johnholmes on Jul 14, 2011 14:42:17 GMT 10
Growing up in the mid 1980's I remember being bombarded with propaganda from teachers at a young age about the hole Ozone Layer and I was told to recycle etc...
Since then it has gone from taking the goods yourself to the Recycling centre's to now by having your recycleables picked up every week with your rubbish by your local council.
25-30 years later the Ozone Layer has apparantly repaired Itself, recycleling is the norm and probably a billion dollar industry.
I see the carbon tax as the same, new innovative ways to lessen pollution will become the norm,I dont agree with that ranga dog Gillard but I will learn to live with it.
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Post by mr kek on Jul 14, 2011 15:10:49 GMT 10
I didn't mind the GST from the get go, so him flip flopping on it, was a good thing  The difference is, this carbon tax is just bullshit. It's a tax for what exactly? Like I said, if they made some magic spray they could put in the air and fix the problem, ok, I'll pay for that, but, what the hell are we paying for? So if you didn't mind the Carbon Tax Gillard's backflip wouldn't be an issue? Never mind the fact that a politician lied. Oh sorry as Tony Abbott put it last night, changed their mind.  There are a lot of pros for and a lot of cons against it. All it takes a simple search and a little reading.  I said I didn't mind the GST and I clearly said I dont' like this carbon tax, so I don't understand your post. There are no pro's. It's just a way for the govt. to line it's coffers. Where's the magic spray to fix the problem if I'm paying for it? Actually, Howard didn't backfilp the GST, he took it to the polls and won! |
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Post by dragon on Jul 14, 2011 15:25:25 GMT 10
Actually, Howard didn't backfilp the GST, he took it to the polls and won! That's not technically true. After they lost an election, and he took over as opposition leader, he said he would never introduce a GST. Then after he won power...he introduced the GST. He did after winning the election, and didn't say anything during the campaign about bringing it back. Then by the time the next election rolled around people were used to the GST and didn't vote him out. Gillard will be hoping the same thing happens for her carbon tax. |
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Post by HBM on Jul 14, 2011 15:46:44 GMT 10
I said I didn't mind the GST and I clearly said I dont' like this carbon tax, so I don't understand your post. And I'm sure if it was Gillard saying no and Abbott saying yes your POV would completely change which was my point. There are no pro's. It's just a way for the govt. to line it's coffers. Well the later concerns me and is why I am not feeling right about another tax. However with a tax people will look into renewable energy which is now affordable, that is just one big positive for IMO. Where's the magic spray to fix the problem if I'm paying for it? Where is the magic spray to cure cancer? Maybe we should stop funding medical research.  Actually, Howard didn't backfilp the GST, he took it to the polls and won! I'll pretend I didn't read that one.  |
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Post by HBM on Jul 14, 2011 15:51:45 GMT 10
Then by the time the next election rolled around people were used to the GST and didn't vote him out. Was it Latham who he was up against that election? He could have put a 50% GST down and he still would have been voted in before that clown. |
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Post by jjhewlett on Jul 14, 2011 19:08:08 GMT 10
John Howard did say never ever on the GST, then changed his mind & took it to the polls. Regardless of who he was up against (I believe it was Beazley) the fact is he took policy to the polls for the nation to vote on.
If Gillard took the carbon tax to the polls & won then I could bitch & whinge about her & her stupid tax as much as I want but I couldn't call her a liar.
Her credibility is shot & the only thing saving her is Tony Abbott not stepping up his game as a viable alternative leader..
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Post by mr kek on Jul 14, 2011 19:39:39 GMT 10
Where is the magic spray to cure cancer? Maybe we should stop funding medical research. I'll use the dog this time  It's not a tax. You're statement is flawed.
Spin it any way you want. Fact is, we all voted the GST in. We have no choice here on the carbon tax. We are told it's what we need.  My issue with the carbon tax is, where is the money going to go? What will it do to actually fix the problem? NOTHING cause they can't but yet we all still pay? Now look at the cat againWhen you pay tax on something, the money is used on that area. What the fuck are they going to use the money on? They don't have the magic spray to fix the problem, so why are we paying for it? Don't spin this shit and tell me it's good for me to pay tax on something I don't feel I should be. Basically, if they called it the bullshit tax, I'd have less of a problem with it, as it's more upfront. John Howard did say never ever on the GST, then changed his mind & took it to the polls. Regardless of who he was up against (I believe it was Beazley) the fact is he took policy to the polls for the nation to vote on.If Gillard took the carbon tax to the polls & won then I could bitch & whinge about her & her stupid tax as much as I want but I couldn't call her a liar. Her credibility is shot & the only thing saving her is Tony Abbott not stepping up his game as a viable alternative leader.. You've put it in a more eloquent manner than I have. |
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Post by nath on Jul 14, 2011 20:08:19 GMT 10
If " the future " was so damn important, she'd risk her job on it.
When arrogance becomes ignorance and you start believing you're own spin, you're in trouble. And people can see that.
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Post by HBM on Jul 14, 2011 20:13:07 GMT 10
Kek I've said I don't necessarily agree with it to begin with. I see positives and negatives to it. You who comes in swearing, calling names and just generally being loud and outspoken without one shred of information on the topic other than lines your favourite "Team" spin every day offers very little. As I said before, do a search and read a little. At least then you could back up some of your arguments right now it's clear you can not and should not. John Howard did say never ever on the GST, then changed his mind & took it to the polls. Regardless of who he was up against (I believe it was Beazley) the fact is he took policy to the polls for the nation to vote on. If Gillard took the carbon tax to the polls & won then I could bitch & whinge about her & her stupid tax as much as I want but I couldn't call her a liar. Her credibility is shot & the only thing saving her is Tony Abbott not stepping up his game as a viable alternative leader.. Yeah I know Howard took it to the polls not long after and he won. It's not the point I was trying to make I was just bringing up the point that he lied like every politician. |
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Post by nath on Jul 14, 2011 20:42:50 GMT 10
I've got a question that will blow your minds:
The tables turned, and Abbott is trying to sell the carbon tax to the public as PM. Would your opinions of both leaders be any different?
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Post by HBM on Jul 14, 2011 20:58:13 GMT 10
I've got a question that will blow your minds: The tables turned, and Abbott is trying to sell the carbon tax to the public as PM. Would your opinions of both leaders be any different? Labor was pretty pro environment before the election if they were trying to oppose something they apparently stand for I'd be pretty disappointed. I was very Pro Gillard to begin with but it's changed a lot since then and at this stage she has lost my vote so I'd probably feel the same way about Julia as I do right now if the shoe was on the other foot. Abbott on the other hand has never really put any effort into environmental issues and comes across as someone who doesn't really care. If he put across something like this I'd certainly be sceptical but would see some positive out of it. I'd probably feel the same way about the tax as I do now but would think of Abbott a little differently. |
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Post by mr kek on Jul 14, 2011 21:43:42 GMT 10
Kek I've said I don't necessarily agree with it to begin with. I see positives and negatives to it. Sorry I misread your post, I thought you were for it. I don't see positives for it. You who comes in swearing, calling names and just generally being loud and outspoken without one shred of information on the topic other than lines your favourite "Team" spin every day offers very little. As I said before, do a search and read a little. At least then you could back up some of your arguments right now it's clear you can not and should not. You can choose to have that view, but a tax and a disease are not the same thing and can't be taken as such. My arguments are clear as day, and make valid sense, but if you have a different view, you will not see it my way, just as I don't see yours. I hate Gillard alot and I'm vocal about it. I think she's a bogan. She looks like one, talks like one, and thinks like one. I'm aloud to dislike her, and be vocal about it, but for the sake of keeping the peace, this will be my last post in the topic. Carry on |
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Post by jjhewlett on Jul 14, 2011 22:11:36 GMT 10
If the tables were turned I doubt Abbott would've introduced the tax in the first place. One thing that's becoming increasingly clear is that this is Bob Brown's tax. Julia Gillard has become PM in name only & Bob Brown is effectively running the show.
I truly believe that this will have very damaging long term consequences for the Greens & the voter backlash will be savage. The Greens have held this country to ransom since the election & because Julia's so desperate to cling to power she will quite happily bend over & take a cucumber up the clacker from them.
Now yes I am a liberal voter but I truly believe that this country would be in a much better position if they never lost power in '07. I said it at the time (quite poorly & offending many I'm afraid to admit) but Labor went into that election with no policies at all & won it on the back of a union scare campaign about work choices & because Kev turned the election into a popularity contest.
In the 4 years since, Labor's bankrupted this nation & wasted millions on dodgy rort riddled schemes that have done nothing to improve the country at all because they were after the quick popular vote. If Liberal stayed in office, we would've had a smooth transition from Howard to Costello & the country would've weathered the GFC without having to resort to cash handouts that did noting to help infrastructure. We wouldn't have Abbott as Liberal leader not doing his job & MAYBE someone on the Labor side might've stood up & looked at long term solutions to problems instead of the quick fixes that don't work we've got over the last 4 years..
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Post by HBM on Jul 14, 2011 22:31:30 GMT 10
I'm dead against the Work Choices and that was the Libs downfall. They got greedy and paid for it. I'm guilty of not looking at big picture stuff in 07 but when your working conditions are threatened and not just for the short term but your whole working life it's hard to look at anything else. It's a similar situation now. Next election the Libs probably will win on the back of a scare campaign of a Carbon Tax with no policies etc. Sound familiar. |
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Post by jjhewlett on Jul 14, 2011 22:44:34 GMT 10
touche!
Hey as said I'm a liberal voter but as much as I personally like Tony Abbott (the amount of volunteer work he does which until he became leader went unnoticed is amazing) I'm afraid he's starting to show he's not up for the job. Much like Kim Beazley for Labor (who was a lot more likeable to the general population) he's a good bloke with a good heart who just doesn't come across as Prime Ministerial. Unless something changes soon (And I'm not talking Turnbull getting the job as I think he's incredibly divisive) I'll be voting for an Independent at the next election & hoping that there isn't a hung parliament...
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